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06-09-2008, 7:21 AM johncort Joined on 05-08-2006 Agoura Hills, California Posts 4 My vote - C7 and Clarion.Net Reading about the Aussie Devcon and the great strides made with the appgen I wanted to state the following: I would love to see a converter that will take the most complex application designed out there and convert it without modifications. Of course, I'd like 10 million in cash today too ... but that's another story. My vote? If appgen is working and the converter is not, isn't that two wholly separate and distinct things? With appgen working we can begin developing applications albeit from scratch. But it's a whole lot better than what we have now, even though what's there is great! Anyway, just my vote. What's yours? John N Cortenbach    Report

06-09-2008, 8:05 AM Russ Joined on 10-20-2005 Posts 223 Re: My vote - C7 and Clarion.Net John, A well reasoned argument, but many others out there want to see their current applications converted to C7 without issue. The goal there is to continue development of the current app with C7. So if there are conversion issues SV is finding, then they are wise to delay the release. Otherwise the noise would be deafening. Russ Eggen www.radfusion.com    Report

06-09-2008, 10:21 AM Shankar Joined on 10-24-2005 Dubai, UAE Posts 219 Re: My vote - C7 and Clarion.Net Russ, As is quite obvious from the current development of the Dictionary Editor, it is the CSP user feedback which has made the Dictionary Editor into a nearly working entity. IOW, SV's testing capabilities is minimal. The Application Generator is a much more complex animal and if it is true that it is ready for Beta testing except for conversion issues then SV should release it to really test it out. But I guess it is more "wool over the eyes" by SV i.e. the AppGen is far from stable to develop applications from scratch. I would wager that we will not see the AppGen before September 20?? (I have left the year open to support the soon(tm) model). Regards Shankar    Report

06-09-2008, 2:10 PM LivinginOrlando Joined on 03-01-2008 Posts 4 Re: My vote - C7 and Clarion.Net I've already weighed in on this...  online application development is now making way for rich media application development.  On the web, there will always been business utilitarian uses for a dbms system for intra/extranets but the market is shrinking with introduction to Adobe Flex (and other RIA) development tools.  I think SV needs to release something... anything...   Better to get momentum moving forward.  The 'soon' model doesn't generate revenue for SV and it certainly doesn't drive revenue for loyal SV users. Adam    Report

06-09-2008, 11:57 PM Shankar Joined on 10-24-2005 Dubai, UAE Posts 219 Re: My vote - C7 and Clarion.Net Hi Adam, What really gets to me is the lack of communication and the fact that one has to pay again (DevCon attendees) to get a preview of a product we have all paid for. Frankly, for the way SV has dragged and mismanaged the C7 development, it has to extend all CSP subscriptions for one year after C7 goes Gold as a bare minimum for its failure to estimate the project and provide regular status updates to the CSP subscribers. Regards Shankar    Report

06-11-2008, 5:55 AM Russ Joined on 10-20-2005 Posts 223 Re: My vote - C7 and Clarion.Net [[As is quite obvious from the current development of the Dictionary Editor, it is the CSP user feedback which has made the Dictionary Editor into a nearly working entity. IOW, SV's testing capabilities is minimal. The Application Generator is a much more complex animal and if it is true that it is ready for Beta testing except for conversion issues then SV should release it to really test it out. But I guess it is more "wool over the eyes" by SV i.e. the AppGen is far from stable to develop applications from scratch. I would wager that we will not see the AppGen before September 20?? (I have left the year open to support the soon(tm) model).]] Shankar, If they released something with known issues, then would you step in and remind those that complain their production apps don't convert that the conversion stuff is still being tested and debugged? Or would you continue your accusation that their testing is not adequate but you wanted the buggy product anyway? Russ Eggen www.radfusion.com    Report

06-11-2008, 8:02 AM Shankar Joined on 10-24-2005 Dubai, UAE Posts 219 Re: My vote - C7 and Clarion.Net Russ, Serious developers will not test C7's AppGen by converting their production applications. They would test it with smaller applications first. Wasn't the Dictionary editor released with conversion issues? So, if AppGen is REALLY ready except for conversion issues, let them release it without the conversion capability right away. I am sure most CSP users would be happy to see a working AppGen first and a working APP converter later. Regards Shankar    Report

06-12-2008, 7:30 AM Russ Joined on 10-20-2005 Posts 223 Re: My vote - C7 and Clarion.Net I beg to differ. They will use *copies* of their production apps as they want to see their existing apps in C7! Will all the movies, blogs and compiling of C6 generated sources with C7 code in them, I can't blame them. The dct editor was released with all known issues fixed. I found a few more as I use the dct a bit differently than most developers. The issue was spotted and fixed within minutes (literally) once I forwarded my dct to them. I even got the fixed dct back as evidence and I confirmed the fix in the next build. Part of the beta process. But MANY current developers want to see their *current* applications in C7. If they don't convert correctly, there will be hell to pay and the nukes will be launched on the newsgroups. They just won't create new apps to play with C7, they want to see how their C6 apps look. They want the new visual features with no work to put them in, something not possible with C6 technology. I know this community. If there are known conversion issues with some apps that are still being chased down, there WILL be posts on the newsgroups that SV's testing department is not doing their jobs. If I were Z, I would not release it either. Better to have the posts about it being late. Having said that, SV won't find all the issues either. This is why you need to put something in the hands of testers as they use things differently. Having said all of this, I would not mind getting the app gen today, warts and all. I'll assume some of my apps will convert, some won't. I'd also make new apps. And yes, I'll give SV feedback. ;-) But it would be very hard to NOT report non-converting apps (as SV knows about the issue). Russ Eggen www.radfusion.com    Report

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